UGH... The more you start investigating the dog food companies the more frustrated you become!! Aspen is currently on Innova but looking for a new diet. Natura Pet Foods who is the owner of Innova was bought out by P&G this summer. I won't get into all the details on here, but they are a big super company that owns both Iams, Eukanuba, and tons of other random stuff like frebreze ... Bad news!! Here's the website that kind of explains things better: http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/innova-dog-food.html
So we are on a mission to make a change but what is the best nutrition for your dog or your large breed berner for that matter? It seems almost everyone has an opinion on the subject. It seems quite practical to ask a vet right? Often the answer you get is not one that I feel is helpful. They often recommend brands like science diet or iams. A large dog food companies that in my opinion provides awful nutrition for your dog! They do make special medical formulas that are some times needed for a real disease like kidney failure etc but not for allergies alone. My suggestion is to question vets on nutrition!! Hills and Iams give lots of $$ to vet schools, thus this love affair with this horrible diet!! Make sure you read lables. Their products are full of corn and by products YUCK!! Dogs need meat (three meats at the beginning with exceptions). I think at least one of those meats should be in a meal form. Meal is dehydrated meat with out meal behind the meat it is listed with it's water content so it's better placed further down the ingredient list. There should also be no corn or soy, by-product meal, bone meal, blood meal... all bad icky stuff!! :-)
An area I'd like to explore more is the effects of protein on large breed dogs. I am a little unsure of how much protein a Large breed dog should have. I've read mixed things some saying nothing over 30% others saying it doesn't matter. I'm kind of being on the side of caution here and not going crazy with the protein. If anyone has any advice about this I would gladly take it :-)
Now your question might be " well what are you going to put him on then?" I'm an avid label reader. I took home education in high school and I can't cook or sew, but I did manage to learn to read food labels. Because I read labels for myself, it was only natural for me to do the same with Aspen and Picasso (Aspen's brother the cat). We are starting to widdle it down to a few:
Side bar: none of these products I have chosen contain ethoxyquin. Ethoxyquin is a possible cancer causing preservative. It is not listed on the bag because dog food companies don't put it into the food it's added by the handlers of the meat product. If you don't know call your dog food company or check there website to make sure that your dog food doesn't have this. It's banned for human consumption so you know it's not good for your dog!!
Ok here are the choices:
1. Taste of the Wild
2. Wellness
3. Blue Buffalo
4. Nature's Variety
I really like the taste of the wild! I know that it is made by Diamond. They have had some recalls. I was actually almost sold on it because it's at a steal of a price. $41.99 for a 30lb bag. Recently though they have made a change to the formula that I noticed (we had some samples of it). In all the formula's salt is in between the 10th and 14th on the list of ingredients . That seems like a lot of salt to me. Excessive amounts of salt is horribly bad for people and I can't believe that it would be much better for dogs? I emailed them and got the response that because it's an all life formula puppies and pregnant mothers need more salt. Eh.. we are going to see what our vet says about this but I'm thinking this counts it out. It also proves that all dog formulas aren't the best because every dog has certain needs.
We like wellness but wellness also contracts out it's manufacturing. Many many companies make the wellness formula and package it as wellness. While this is fine... it's somewhat troubling. Ray despite his efforts to get a job in the ecology field has landed in the area of food science and well knows the horror stories of things not being tested and rounding to whatever works best for you. This is in human grad stuff, so can you imagine what steps can be skipped with dog food!! With so many different companies making it how can you make sure that each batch is separated etc? I called a Wellness rep today and we discussed where the Large Breed Adult dog food that would come from. The Large breed adult food is actually made by the Diamond company in South Carolina. In addition to manufacturing concerns, wellness is also pretty expensive. The large breed being being about $59.00 per bag. Give or take some. We are looking at the super 5 mix chicken for regular dogs also because Aspen is already being given supplements of glucosamine this might make it slightly cheaper.
We are also taking a look at Blue buffalo. They also seem to have some decent ingredients but my issue with them is their recalls and they participate in the same process as wellness by having several companies make their formula and put their label on it. They have had a recall every year for the past year on at least one of their products. The most recent one being that of having too much vitamin D in the food. A bonus is that they are slightly more reasonable at around $45.00 per bag. But the Recall thing makes me nervous.
Nature's Variety I actually just learned about today and I like what I see. I was a bit concerned because there is only one meat meal but the company ensures that it's mostly made of that meat meal. So the content of meat is sufficient. Another product they make is a raw diet. They manufacture their kibble at only the Pride company and the raw is manufactured at the base company in Nebraska. The Dry kibble is about what we are paying for Innova now at 51.99 per bag. The raw is actually pretty expensive. They estimated that it would cost $2.40 to feed a 50lb dog per day so that would make it... 4.80 for us... x 30 days= a whopping $144 per month.. bit much for a starving college student!! I would like to try their kibble and maybe supplement a little bit.
Well we have a vet visit tomorrow to see if the inflammation has gone down in his colon. Then we will be making the decision on a diet. I'll make sure to ask about the salt and inform anyone who is willing to listen. We have a play date with the neighbor Berner so I'd better get my snow gear on. Remember if anyone has comments or disagrees I take constructive criticism well :-)
Dog food is a topic that can get heated very quickly. I too am a label reader, even for the treats I feed my dogs.
ReplyDeleteWhen we got Maggie, she had many of the same tummy issues that Aspen seems to have. She never seemed to have a normal poop. We tried all types of food, including the vet food that I really did not want to use. Nothing seemed to work. The food that came closest to giving her normal bowel movements was Timberwolf. At the time it was a very good food, but it has been about 4 years since I bought it, so I don't know if anything in the company has changed. I was getting very frustrated with all the tummy issues and vet visits and started to research a raw diet. It was about this time that we brought Bosley home and his breeder feeds raw and Bosley was actually weaned to raw. His breeder helped me out a lot with all my questions and I made the switch. Within only a few day of being on the raw, Maggie had totally normal poops for the first time ever. She has been raw fed now for 4 years without any more issues. She gets the occasional kibble (Orijen) on the mornings I am in a rush and forgot to defrost something and tolerates that very well too.
Most vets do not agree with a raw diet unless you can find a holistic vet. I have found a couple vets who feed raw themselves who are supportive.
Raw is not for everyone or for every dog, but it seems to be working well with my two. I had no growth issues with Bosley as a pup, he grew very slowly and evenly. Both my dogs have lots of energy but are not off-the-wall crazy like some dogs who are sensitive to grains.
I am not sure about how much protein large breed dogs should have, but being on a raw diet, my dogs average around 20-22% protein depending on what type of meat I am feeding (they get a variety of proteins). I would think that 30% sounds high.
I wanted to add something about the cost of raw food. It does not have to be expensive, but you need to look around. The pre-made stuff is outrageous for price - I buy it if I need to. There are a group of us raw feeders who will buy an entire cow and have it made into dog food. We also buy bulk chickens (laying hens that are being butched at egg farms). If you know people who hunt, you can often get venison or other wild meat for next to nothing. There are also raw feeding co-ops in larger cities where you can get good deals.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info Kim! How do you get started feeding raw? Did you have to buy a book or something? Are their recipes? I'm not 100% sold on his issues being food related though... it's weird because he has tummy trouble one day the next not. It doesn't seem like a food allergy thing really... He has been tested for parasites and doesn't have any... just very odd. I like the idea of giving him something that isn't processed :-)
ReplyDeleteHi Erika,
ReplyDeleteWhen I got started, I mainly used Bosley's breeder as a source of information because she had been feeding raw to her dogs for about 15 years. I did get a couple books - the Billinghurst "Give Your Dog A Bone" and the Longsdale "Raw Meaty Bones". These books have a lot of basic information. There are not really recipes, but you need to learn how to balance the meat/bone/organ ratio. There are also different raw feeding methods - the BARF method and the Prey Model method are the main two. BARF includes pureed veggies and fruit and supplements while the Prey model feeders feed whole animal only - no veggies or supplements.
I feed some veggies/fruit and add a few supplements including fish oil and anti-oxidants.
This Bernese breeder website gives her weekly menu which is very close to what I feed my dogs (the proteins vary depending what I have access to). Raw Feeding Bernese
If you are interested in learning more, I would suggest joining the "Natural Berners" yahoo group. There are lots of people on that group with tons of good info about feeding and Bernese health in general.
Hi Erika,
ReplyDeleteJust came across your blog. Aspen looks so sweet!
About your question regarding how much protein to feed a dog: The online merck Veterinary Manual addresses that. Here is the link:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/182902.htm
It's kind of technical lingo and you have to do the math to figure out your dog's weight and convert to pounds, if needed. I was surprised at how little protein is required each day for an adult dog. I probably feed my dog Gracie a bit more for her weight than Merck states. Yet I do trust the Merck Manual so maybe you can use it as a guide. After adopting my dog Gracie many years ago, she had tummy trouble with almost every commercial dog food I fed her. California Naturals Lamb & Rice seemed to agree with her digestion but she didn't like it and wouldn't eat much. I started making her homemade dog food and have been doing so ever since, and she's had no tummy problems at all. I'm continually researching canine nutrition and posting photos on my blog of my dog Gracie and what I feed her. She turns 12 this year and is in excellent health. I hope all goes well with your dog. And by the way, making homemade dog food does not always cost so much more than feeding commercial dog food. I compared the cost of a homeade dog food meal on my blog to several commercial dog food meals. Of course, it does take a bit more time. Best of luck to you! I look forward to reading more Big Paw Berner posts!
Thanks for reading!! Yeah he has been so fun that past year :-) We are for sure going to a grain free food now. After doing some comparisons with the brands we have tried I found grains and chicken to be the common denominator. Right now Taste of the Wild is what we are going to. I would feed Orijen ( which after researching in my opinion the best dog food on the market) but it does have a protein level of 30%-40%. It's something to be cautious of for the really big guys and their laundry list of health concerns. It's not a concern at all in the smaller dogs. I've joined some groups and am getting educated on the different natural diets and maybe one day will take the plunge but first I feel I need to be educated and prepared. BTW that is awesome that Gracie is 12!! Sadly very very few Berners make it to 12 :-( The average for a male is 7 years!! Thanks for reading and always feel free to comment!!
ReplyDeleteThis is very nice post! Everyone one should Buy Dog Food Online
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A large dog food companies that in my opinion provides awful.Because of the Berner's popularity, some people have bred dogs of lesser.I know dogs - especially Berners - go through stages where they eat very little.Moreover,i love this blog.
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